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mamoncrief
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PostSubject: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 7:08 pm

First off, please understand this will be very long. I would love to hear your thoughts, but this is aimed toward Dakota, so I would really really really love to hear from a developer on this, if there are any around. Thanks!

I understand that Dakota wants to crack down on the real money trading of in game resources, especially since the more hard resources (like cans and powershots) that get sold the less money goes straight into their pocket. That said, I wanted to voice my opinion to the good folks at Dakota in order to make sure that this is carried out in the right way. I just remember when BB cracked down in a similar way. A LOT of legit players lost their entire accounts from overzealous and completely arbitrary bans and the botting problem only escalated. I hope that Dakota learns from this lesson, and does not destroy their already weak player base by banning everyone who has used money outside of the game for a benefit inside. Beyond communicating with and investigating the people who are suspected of potentially gaining from illicit trades before you drop the banhammer, I have a few suggestions as to how YOU (Dakota) might take some responsibility for the issue, and work proactively to solve the problem, without an arbitrary and useless banwave.
First, here are the articles from the Dakota Terms of Service that relate to this issue, so we all are on the same page:
“(b) General Prohibitions. You agree not to do any of the following while using our services
…. Solicit user login credentials from another user or collect user content or otherwise access our serves by automated means including but not limited to, bots, robots, spiders;
Create an account on our services for anyone other yourself;
Use your profile for personal commercial gain;
Use cheats, exploits, hacks, bots, mods, or third party software to gain an advantage perceived or actual, over other users, or modify or interfere with our services;
Abuse or exploit a bug, glitch, or mechanism in our services, or;
Engage in any fraudulent behavior, including but not limited to credit card scams or credit card misappropriation.”

Quick note since a LOT of people have been complaining about this lately- there is no motion addressing multiple accounts, as long as they are registered to one individual and are personal accounts. So if you made multiple accounts for yourself, and are played by yourself, no matter what sort of interaction those accounts have (ie. sending a new account powerful mercs and using that account in an event) you are not violating the terms of use. It is the use of bots to play these accounts that is against the terms of service.

Now on to the issue at hand-

First off, motivation. The people sell resources out of game because they make money, and people in the game buy them because they realize that they can never compete as even a LEGITIMATE PAYING PLAYER against those who can buy 10 times as many resources for the same price, and will leave the game frustrated or be driven to buy resources from outside markets.
So maybe it is time you re-evaluate your price point for in game resources? But, you might say, $1 per resource works great in BB. Does it, however? Last I checked the going rate for Mandrake in that game on one of the NUMEROUS illegal markets was around 15 cents. Who are buying MD from the market when they can be bought almost 10 to 1 from a botter? Noobs who don't know better? There can’t be that much money to be made off these people.
Right now I know the price for a Powershot is around 25 cents, because I constantly receive unsolicited messages from botters attempting to sell their product. For me, I understand the negative impact that this has on the game, its playerbase, and the entire structure of the relationship between devs and players. But for someone attempting to build a squad and attempting to be competitive, the lure of the advantage gained by cheap and easy to get resources can be too much.

So remove the lure to bot. Sell Powershots 2 for a dollar, or even 3. They are invisible and free for you, why guard them like your sisters virginity behind a ridiculously high price point? If all of a sudden you were selling them for 30 cents, or even 50 cents, a lot of players would be willing to spend the money that is currently going to botters and outside markets into your pockets. The same goes for Ammo and Brain Eaters. Halve the prices, and watch the botters move on to a game where more money can be made. Don't create a culture that FORCES people to outside markets in order to be competitive, and then punish them for it. Work with your game community to fix the problem.

Second- I think it is important, as many people have noted, that you be very specific as to which behaviors specifically are ban worthy. A general message about outside trades get’s everyone on their toes, but the only people who lose when you ban are the active honest players who could never hope to replace their hard earned mercenary teams. If a botter get’s an accout- or a dozen accounts- banned, there is always more. The massive bans didn’t help BB, it just decreased their active player base by driving off honest players. If someone is quitting and sells their account to new player, will the old player be banned from returning? The new player for purchasing mercenaries that would otherwise end up disappearing into the abyss of inactive accounts?
My suggestion to solve this would be to add a mobacoin option to the Exchange, so players could still sell their mercs for a transferrable currency (your Mobacoins), and move on to a new Mobage game, but would mean that you STILL make money since new players would be compelled to purchase these mercenaries through the appropriate owner of the merchandise being sold- YOU.

So Dakota there you have it, I will go out on a limb and say that if you implemented these 2 changes, overnight you would eliminate 90% of the illegal market trades. The choice is yours, bans or solve the problem at its root. There is a way everyone can win in this.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 7:12 pm

TL/DR

Botting and outside resource trades go hand in hand, but the solution isn't just a random round of bans that will hurt the honest players as much as the botters. Instead, I would love to see them implement these 2 changes

1. A reduction of the price of in Game Resources by 50% to compete with the prices that botters are able to offer and make the choice of accepting a legitimate in game trade. This prevents players from having to choose between being competitive or adhering to the TOS

2. An option to trade Mercs on the exchange for Mobacoins, so players who are moving on to another game can gain a transferable currency without having to break the terms of service, while also allowing Dakota to earn money on these mercenaries that are changing hands from players transitioning out of the game to those coming into it.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 7:18 pm

Doing the mobacoin thing would be helpful in making it more secure for players looking to invest money.into their squad as well I'd imagine
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 7:26 pm

How about allowing players to also offer res on the exchange for mobacoins. That way players looking to buy mercs with mobacoins could build up by trading their res, and players looking to buy res could purchase mobacoins to get res at varying rates offering potential to get a good deal or less so depending on the state of the market

This would also make transitioning games much easier

Also as an afterthought this would require secure original sourcing of the res...


Last edited by paintballer58 on September 20th 2013, 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 7:31 pm

I think you guys should add that if a member wants to leave the game, they could sell their mercs on the mobage coin xchange, in return dakota takes a percentage of that like 10 or even 20 percent of sales, and some cash goes into the players pocket. Money is still being made, just people won't sell out side of it because, it will  hit a wider base by using the xchange?
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 7:53 pm

also if dakota made the game affordable they would have an increase in player base and the profit from lowering their prices. People would buy more from the game and not players.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 7:58 pm

The game is already free lol

You want them to pay you to play?
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 8:03 pm

it is free if you do what you do and farm ace, but from what I see people like to participate in all events, and if they lowered the price more people would participate in all of the events, and not just farm for a particular event or build up their resources.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 8:10 pm

The goal of this post wasn't an attempt to gain money from Dakota. I don't think they should let us cash out mobage coins like an ATM. All of my suggestions above only serve to address the reasons why people seek out cash trades outside of mobage, and spin those into ways that Dakota could vastly improve their own profit margin with no intrinsic expense.

It just seems like a win win for everyone, but more of a win even for Dakota than us players since they will be taking an area that is currently draining their profits and transforming it into a source of pure profit. Allowing us to sell mercs for Moba coins? They are making money people buy res to gain the mercs, then they make MORE money when people buy moba coins to buy those mercs. Once the coins are paid for, does it matter who spends them? Remember they are just a line of code, and cost mobage NOTHING.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 8:14 pm

Yeah i see your point mamo and yes it is a very good point.

@Ace tho, if people farmed this game, it would not last. I am studying a book on Managing for Quality and Performance Excellence, and in this book it goes into great detail on meeting customer's needs to ensure business performance. All I am saying is make it more affordable for their customers, this will keep the game in business for a very long time. (price drop for resources)
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 8:24 pm

We can all agree they could definitely scale the prices on the resources used to play extra. There is also two types of "farming" and people know this. The casual not really playing but getting some point rewards farming would never hurt anyone. That "other" farming yes it can kill. One of the bigger problems is the people that will just keep buying at they're prices. Why sell for 2 when that guy will spend the 4? Money issues can ease things but there will ALWAYS be restless natives lol

Now hopefully the OP didn't get buried by all this. I'd really love a dev to read what he typed out.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 8:48 pm

I'm just gonna keep bumping this till a dev hops on and at least shoots a post that they saw it, and fill us in a little more about what this whole IRL money trade ban threat is all abot. Anytime they start to drop the banhammer, in any game I have been a part of in the past, the community has suffered. It is sign of frustration and weariness on the part of the devs, and I'd like to see that not happen with this game.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 20th 2013, 9:10 pm

lginn2003 wrote:
it is free if you do what you do and farm ace, but from what I see people like to participate in all events, and if they lowered the price more people would participate in all of the events, and not just farm for a particular event or build up their resources.
True story, MobaCoins are extremely expensive to waste on Fatal Frontier.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 23rd 2013, 12:31 pm

Here's a bump since they just posted the warning again. Protect your hard earned accounts!
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 23rd 2013, 1:13 pm

All good points. I dont have a any issue at all with being locked to dakota in a mobacoin way. At least there would be a lower sense of loss if I wanted to move on and try something new.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 24th 2013, 9:52 am

Some great ideas here that could benefit both the legitimate player base and Dakota.

Free bump.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 24th 2013, 12:46 pm

Thanks Legend!
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   September 25th 2013, 12:19 pm

Good topic bump
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 1st 2013, 6:09 pm

Saw some devs on earlier, I would really like something from them as to the direction they are taking the economy of the game. Things seem very shaky right now! please give the community something to go on.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 8th 2013, 4:59 pm

Another round of bans, another bump for this topic.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 8th 2013, 5:16 pm

There has been a round of bans already? Is there a round every time they run that message?
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 8th 2013, 5:23 pm

That is what I am thinking. A few folk got banned, but then again, Usmanreal1 is back too, so I don't know what is going on.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 12:41 am



lol... same guy, same mercs, different name...?
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 12:59 am

That isn't Usmanreal.
He doesn't have a Nox v2 or Boomer v2.

And now there are more Telepaths and Hellcats in the game.
By the hackers.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:01 am

oh yeah, ran into this squad as well, I fought it wanting to see the bangal and boom boxer in action but my D&Js took them out....... when you don't want them to proc.....
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:18 am

@duavae: Do you have a proper PVP squad using D&J and is it actually effective? I keep trying to experiment with mine but I can't find one (with what I have) that works that well as they are a bit weak.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:19 am

Ed, I was on usaman's profile today and he did have a boom boxer v2
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:38 am

@dan
I have tried two combinations and both gets through 30 streaks no problem. both in W formation
1. D&J-Hellcat-Blue-Tigrey-D&J extra defense in case prebattle proc doesn't happen
2. D&J-Hellcat-D&J-Mordeo-Blue an odd line up I tried to increase proc rate of D&J and it works for me.
have tried replacing Hellcat with another tigrey and works fine as well. but the double action and Nuke of Hellcat is definitely handy.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:44 am

You know what? It really sucks when you get a good merc but then you ask around on how its best used and it always so happens to work best with three or four other things.....you aint got!! LOL

Edward always pissing me off like that..."well it would be better with X and X" .. Well yeah but i aint got those damn you lol
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:50 am

@duavae I saw that comment that you made previously about the dual Tigrey configuration and was wondering if it was that or something new that might be actually attainable. Most of the ones I come up with involve Hellcats and Telepaths which I will never own.

On paper I am not convinced that the dual tigrey configuration would be that great if nothing procs and I don't have a second proper Tigrey to test.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:51 am

Dan i have a 10.5 tigrey you can have man.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:52 am

I've been tempted all day to buy that damn L doug...why? Just for the damn hell of it lol
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:52 am

haha I hear you frank, I never got me a Jackson when I had the two cats, a dream that will never come true..... some of the best mercs I had would work best with jackson lol
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:53 am

aceslifebegins wrote:
I've been tempted all day to buy that damn L doug...why? Just for the damn hell of it lol
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
it's about as useful as Uber astro
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:54 am

Ahaha i don't care he has one eye


ONE FRIGGIN EYE! rofl
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 1:56 am

you have a point, one is better than two right just like his "skil" notice no s after skill
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:14 am

I no see nothing

Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:15 am

I been trying to buy stuff cause these cans are burnin a hole but no one is sellin :/
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:17 am

I want your cans. What you looking for Smile

You know me, I am ALWAYS a seller haha
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:20 am

Buy up a team of 5 Burnfrosts.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:30 am

Ahaha i have 100 cans

And by the math some of the newbies use that should total...hmmm..one sec..... Yes that would total 14 lethals, 21 blue bots but they HAVE to be POPE, 54 black bots And 11 big rigs but all have to be PE


lol amiright?
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:33 am

Just poking some fun at the people that just started the game yet feel they should somehow have the things guys that have been playing for a year have.

Some of these dirty vatos will turn down a blue bot cause it isn't "max stats dog".

Wtf happened to having fun biulding up your shit? Makes ya wonder exactly how many would cheat they're asses off if they could :/
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:34 am

hahahah you are remarkably close. Kind of like the guy who keeps offering that dang technomancer for the stupidest trades on the planet. "Hmmm... I didn't get 110 ac for it, I know what I'll do! Ask for a Frozen Golem AND a 2000A! My plan, iz infallible!"

But seriously, 100 ac, you should buy my OPE fug bug jowel. That sounds about a fair market price. I've held on to him for like 10 months, so he is at a ripe old age haha.
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:35 am

Really crappy Burnfrosts then.

I would have sold you my Birdkeeper.....but he is gone Sad

What about golems and incinerates?

Or I'll sell you a canis and a Niobe to provoke him to anger.....
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:36 am

lmao sounds pretty close
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:37 am

lol dan 100 cans would by me a golem with one leg shorter than the other
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:41 am

Maybe a 4-in-1 where the Rs were not lvled before Evo and 50 crystals applied after?
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:41 am

Aces, you could buy my backup cannonback. Those are always fun to hide in the back row of PVP events for that 3rd win full squad fight. Suspect 

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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:42 am

That's a serious suggestion...I think those kinds are outlawed here....
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PostSubject: Re: Real Money trade Warning   October 9th 2013, 2:44 am

Oh, shoot. now the cats out of the bag and no one will want to try my PVP squad Sad

You could still buy him though.
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