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 Niobe PvP Discussion

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legendslayer
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PostSubject: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 7:52 pm

I was looking at the new Kenna Attack Kai Lethal, and decided that it might have a niche use in a high-end PvP team when paired with my concept of a shield team and Niobes. Even though the 100% ATK modifier is pathetic, it could actually be OHKO the entire team if buffed by a Niobe or two. That got me thinking about how actually to get him buffed. We know that Niobe buffs the WEAKEST 2 squad members, and this is dictated by most missing HP. But when all allies are at full health (like at the start of a pvp battle), she buffs the two lowest max HP mercs.

Kenna has a very large HP pool, the sixth highest in the game, but this is actually detrimental in this case, as he wont ever get buffed unless he takes damage. In high-end pvp, taking damage may very well mean dying thanks to the popularity of high damage mercs. Which is what this dilemma boils down to... if I keep Kenna as a v1 he only has 10,905 HP (along with low stats across the board). The upside is this guarantees he will get a Niobe buff if she procs. But does that make up for the fact that he could be rocking 15k+ stats across the board (which is even more significant when taking into account the PvP Title boost)? If he doesn't get buffed his survivability and damage is minimal at best. But with a buff or two he turns into a OHKO beast. I guess it boils down to the 40% chance that Niobe buffs in the first round. If that's the case, why not go with 4x Niobes and a Kenna and bet the whole battle on kenna getting buffed a lot? Where does the Niobe stacking stop?

Initially I was hoping to use Odin, but he hasn't been fixed yet in relation to Niobe's skill. He suffers from the same problem of having insanely high HP and will never get initially buffed by Niobe. But at least he will probably take a smack or two in the first round and hopefully survive long enough to get buffed.

Niobe Buff order via HP: (All stats PE w/no crystals)
Kenna v1 - 10,905
Bionic Birdkeeper v2 - 11,071 HP
Slice and Blast v2 - 13,869 HP
Niobe v2 - 14,021
Cannonback Battlemaster - 14,335
Howitzer v2- 14,571
Kenna v2 - 14,721
Odin - 16,070

What do you guys think about banking on randomness for getting the heavy hitters buffed vs possibly going with a V1 and praying for a buff before getting smacked around?
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 8:01 pm

in high end pvp if getting hit=death then why not leave the HP crystal off the V2, then it's lower than battlemaster and Howie, depends on if you have got all the Mercs you listed above
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 8:05 pm

That lets you sneak under one merc, but you still can't get under the Niobe hp threshold, which is critical if you are running 2+ Niobes on a team (like I will be). Also, I can get my hands on a Birdkeeper and Slice for the other two slots, who will always be buffed first then. This is great for them, but leaves a Kenna edged out as a wildcard never getting a buff. At which point, he might be better off being replaced by something with better Synergy.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 8:12 pm

lol put a wasteland rider in there man, it will act as a Niobe buff as well taking the opponents' atk and def down. or a mordeo in place of the second Niobe so
Cannon-Mord-Kena-WR-Niobe or switch the cannon with Niobe so it will survive the first turn if it doesn't buff
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 8:25 pm

But your building around a low % proc rate. Even if niobes low buff rate procs the kenna still has to proc or its just like any other lethal. If you leave it as a V1 with low stats across board I have a feeling your going to be extremely pissed when pvp proc rates kick in during the event.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 8:36 pm

I really like Niobe she buffed the hell out of my team in the gates but for pvp I think I prefer mordeo for the better proc rate and where you want it. Or maybe mordeo next to the 2 strongest then a Niobe mixed in. Pvp battles usually go to fast to get the most benefit from her I would think. In a long battle though she can make you invincible.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 8:46 pm

Hence why I think she will only shine as part of a turtle team with one of the new Shielding lethals. I guess we will know one way or the other after this pvp event as I am banking heavily on her.

The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards a 4x Niobe 1x Birdkeeper setup. His low HP and an 88% chance to get at least 1 buff in the first rounds means It looks good in theory at least. But I'm not sure how that will play out in reality.

This team's weak point will of course be Nox. I will have to avoid Nox like the plague.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 8:50 pm

It sucks we can't just loan around mercs to test setups . Could even have done runs of like 100 pvp battles to test a certain set up. Especially if you had 4-5 people chasing L in pvp. With loaning mercs around we could collectively test sooo many setups with actual data but all is a dream now that the mighty ban hammer is swinging away at anything that looks like a nail.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 8:54 pm

I figured out I can make a ghetto evo of the Kenna by not leveling up the source and come out with 13.6k HP. Hah, I think I just found the solution to my problem... by purposefully ruining a perfectly fine Lethal v2. Hmm, tempting....

Edit: further calculations reveal that I can level the source up to 98 and get a 14.1k HP Kenna v2, letting me use 8 crystals reach just below Niobes 14.5k 50cc HP threshold.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 10:13 pm

Please don't ruin Kenna, just use a Primarch Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 19th 2013, 10:35 pm

Ahahaha Kenna holds a special place for Orz legend, if u gona do it don't tell lol
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 20th 2013, 9:10 pm

Kenna successfully violated. I feel dirty now. Let's see if this gamble pays off. I've either found the only useful niche for this lethal, or degraded an already useless collectors item.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 20th 2013, 9:35 pm

Noooooo! Why?! Why would you do that?! You should be ashamed good sir! Simply ashamed! How dare you ruin the memory of my first ever lethal! How dare you!
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 20th 2013, 9:38 pm

I actually think kenna v2 is a descent piece with a buff. Running mine beside my commando and it hits hard. When howitzer buffs on top of that, lights out, lol. Still haven't seen second skill though.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 22nd 2013, 9:44 pm

Just pulled off a surprising win against Moba-Man and his setup of Tigrey - Mordeo - Leader - Mordeo - Tirgrey. All 5 of his characters buffed, so they all got Tigrey-buffed-Mordeo buffs which meant I was auto-attacking for 500 damage (unbuffed). My setup of Niobe - blue - F-9 - Birdkeeper - Niobe got my blue buff off the bat. I got one Niobe proc, which saved three of my units from instant 38k one shot death. Birdkeepers shield and another niobe procced on turn 2, making his monster team hit for 3-5k (thank god no ATK skills) and giving my team enough power to start knocking out his units.

I suppose this is an ideal play out for a Niobe team, but I thought for sure I was toast when all 5 of his chain buffs fired. It seems she can be very effective when used as a supporting merc, but I wasn't having much luck with her as the centerpiece of a squad.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 22nd 2013, 10:47 pm

I got to see kennas second skill earlier today along with the F9 and corporate bouncer when my blue bot got axed. It was like oh you killed one of mine f___ you. Lol
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 22nd 2013, 11:05 pm

Was doing some testing with Niobe and found her to buff the same 2 mercs when she buffs when no damage has been done. One of the mercs has the lowest initial health and the other has the highest.
 
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 23rd 2013, 7:52 am

Had a pvp match earlier and witnessed a cannis smacking its own niobe on the enemy team lol.. appears the bug is still very much present!
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 23rd 2013, 5:31 pm

^My niobe sits behind my canis in the backrow, just to avoid that very situation. I sure would love to be able to use them together!

Niobe - Golem - Canis - Golem - Blue Bot in ^ formation. mmmmmm, maybe someday!
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 23rd 2013, 6:01 pm

It's like Dakota only cares about nerfing mercs right now, doesn't even feel like fixing the most important stuff in the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 24th 2013, 5:55 pm

Orzhov wrote:
Noooooo! Why?! Why would you do that?! You should be ashamed good sir! Simply ashamed! How dare you ruin the memory of my first ever lethal! How dare you!
Technically another handicapped Kenna in an already permanently limited and finite pool of them only serves to make yours more valuable. Just think 6 months from now when Dakota realizes that the thai members they banned just went changed their clothes and came right back in a side door that very same day and still ended up winning some L's get banned again for another 3 and a half minutes the ones who won a Kenna will see those permanently 86'ed as well, just making yours even more like the unicorn that you know yourself it has always been.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 24th 2013, 5:59 pm

Wait, are you saying they are gonna nerf my OP Kenna now? It's obviously a beast, as it can kill an entire team outright if it procs 4 times in a row using its 100% modifier and doesn't get killed before then. I guess it was only a matter of time before the Nerf bat swung my way Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 9:56 am

Since when Niobe casts her buf also before the fight starts?
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 10:21 am

Caya, I can confirm that is possible. I know I have zero credibility on this site right now, but I swear to y'all not 5 min ago my Niobe just buffed before my Colossus did Strengthening Spores.

Edit: It seems that she is doing it more and more as the day goes on. I never saw/noticed her do before this morning, and now it just happened twice in a row. Just had Niobe proc, then Blue bot, then Colossus, and then she still got her first turn. Maybe this is a sign they are working on her skill to possible fix it? I wonder if she buffs pre-battle if Canis/Odin will still cut her throat. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 2:51 pm

So what is going on? My niobes have turned into Mordeos (better than mordeos actually). Only buffing at start of match (seems to be at a high rate as well, likely 70%) and not during rounds. JSON looks untouched. She's become extremely amazing What a Face .

Niobe must be the weirdest, most variable merc released in FF.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 2:59 pm

I don't know what is going on, but if Legend changed his Niobe/Kenna team he needs to change it back and soak this up while its happening. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 3:37 pm

I have noticed niobe coming from the back row, buffing two adjacent squad mates and then attacking.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 4:22 pm

I'm running 2 in my PVP squad and can confirm that not only did it start this morning, I also just completed my first round of 30 battles Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 5:58 pm

Well it seems like all players that give you an advantage in the raid are being changed.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 6:26 pm

So Niobe just became a Mordeo with 14k ATK & DEF buff ?
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 6:36 pm

I don't know if I'm pissed or glad. Pissed. Definitely pissed. There goes my top 10 raid finish.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 6:44 pm

These walls have eyes....

They were probably waiting for you to snag that v1 incinerate just to screw you.

I made a couple of bad evo bull drones for a similar purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 6:48 pm

So I should just swap out my mordeo and put in my Niobe?

People are pretty certain that the proc rate is acting like it's 70%?

@legendslayer: The value of your Niobes might have just gone through the roof......


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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 6:54 pm

Niobi still buffs the 2 weakest
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 7:06 pm

Buffs pre battle :-) but doesn't buff multiple times anymore :-(
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 7:06 pm

Yes, I have playing with Niobe in the front now, and she is buffing the weakest left to right. She doesn't seem to buff as often as my golem, so maybe she is still 40%. I have seen some 6 figure auto attacks in a 5 man battle for the first time.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 7:07 pm

Tested the proc rate on Niobe.

It procced 5 times and didn't proc 7 times. So, across my sample that's a proc rate of 41.6%.

So, it's exactly the same skill, but it is now an opening skill not in battle.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 7:18 pm

I hv 2 niobe in my team. Only 1 seems to proc in a battle. Is it just by chance or proc manipulation?
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 7:22 pm

The chance for them both to proc at once is 16%. So, in a string of 10 battles you should see them proc together only once or twice.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 7:25 pm

danthepirate wrote:
Tested the proc rate on Niobe.
It procced 5 times and didn't proc 7 times. So, across my sample that's a proc rate of 41.6%.
So, it's exactly the same skill, but it is now an opening skill not in battle.
I read this and had to test as well. I'm running 3x Niobes, Canis, Goldbot, which results in larger sample sizes faster.

Out of 36 possible times, Niobe proc'ed 19 times for me = 53%.
In comparison, Goldbot proc'ed 4/12 = 33%

So I'm not sure what's up and have no idea how to make conclusions in this environment where Dakota determines proc rates on a whim.  I think even if everyone were to pool their statistics, we would need to break things down by streak number, and stuff like that to get an accurate read.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 7:37 pm

Mine was in a point boost and ran across around streak 15 to 24 I think. I will check to see how my mordeo procs, but Mordeo "feels" like he procs a lot more.

I think your gold bot is faulty Smile I'll sell you a new one..........

It's pretty low that they are doing this. No announcement and in the middle of an event. If they had to do it, do it after the event and make an announcement about it. It's almost as if this forum needs to be private so we can discuss our strategies so that we can actually use them before they are nerfed.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 7:44 pm

Yeah, that's interesting yours was during a point boost because mine was at a low streak, from 6 to 15 or something with a few losses and no point boosts. Eh whatever, I might quit this game now. Even if I can continue to enjoy the game in some measure, I think there's no reason to continue supporting a developer like this.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 29th 2013, 8:01 pm

I can't really spare the game time or the mags to do more testing on Niobe unfortunately.

I think the key thing right now is not throw all your eggs in 1 basket. Or, if you find something awesome, don't tell anyone about it (or just PM people about it). I know that goes against the whole sharing info on this forum thing, but, it might just have to be what happens.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 30th 2013, 7:33 am

Thankfully that informative notice cleared everything up for all of us.

Pesky meta data issues where the skill of a merc was doing exactly as advertised but people found out a way to use it really effectively in an up coming event.

So, the skill is: Pre-battle. 50% proc rate. 100% modifier (haven't double checked the json as they haven't mentioned it was changed)
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 30th 2013, 8:16 am

Apparently a thoughtful, interesting new skill mechanic (mid-battle buff) with an appropriately scaled low proc rate was merely a 'meta-data bug.' This either shows that Dakota is completely incompetent and has no imagination, or that they are lying to cover up a shadowy move to promote shitty savages over quality squads. I don't like either of those choices.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 30th 2013, 8:20 am

Due to the name of the skill (change of plans), i think Niobe was originaly ment to act is mid-battle buffer.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 30th 2013, 8:30 am

Yes it was it didn't say anything about pre battle. But it was working out to good with multiple buffs and would have done massive damage in raid.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 30th 2013, 8:32 am

I think That Dakota Couldn't Figure Out How To Prevent Canis From Killing niobe, So They "Fixed The Glitch" and put Niobe back in the boring pre-battle-buffer box.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 30th 2013, 10:02 am

It's good to make it pre-battle, cuz mid battle buffs can be OP. Cards like JawBreaker with max ATK can cause heavy damage with stacked buffs. With only three Niobes proccing thrice and two JawBreakers proccing twice (in four turns), can damage almost 3-5 Million in one go (All out). And this deck is not even hard to achieve.
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PostSubject: Re: Niobe PvP Discussion   October 30th 2013, 10:09 am

I beg to differ...considering JawBreaker was never released Very Happy 

Flip that to Incin v2 and now you're talking some major damage.

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