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 value of mordeo?

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d1fferent
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PostSubject: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 5:03 am

Hiya guys,

im in the market for a mordeo like alot of people im sure!

Whats the average cost of them? Im considering trading a bf towards one but a little unsure if I should let go of her! Is 11590 wis so not a bad evo!

Rough costs for npe and ope mords please Smile
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 5:19 am

So, your Burnfrost (assuming that's what you meant by BF), I really hope there is a typo in the wis you have quoted as that would be a horrible evo (PE being 16201 wis).

Now mordeo. I just picked up a bad evo (8.7K wis) for 100AC. Looking at the recent history, one went for a Kenna V1 (so around 110 AC) and then they are going for silly things like Golems (a bad evo used to go for 180 AC pre nerf). Just keep in mind that a bad evo mordeo will still buff for a few hundred def more than a pre nerf 10.9K blue bot.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 5:44 am

Oh lol, for some reason I thought she was pe, never looked up stats on wiki.

either way I have some saving to do!

thanks bud Smile
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 7:01 am

I don't think it's even possible to have a Burnfrost with those stats, minimum will be something like 14k. AGI could be 11k though.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 7:19 am

You are right, min wis according to the Wiki is 13250. Min AGI is 10620.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 7:46 am

Ah was the early morning brain fog..! 15940 is its wis!
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 8:25 am

That's a decent Burnfrost, worth quite something but not sure if I want to buy one or not .. This is basically just like Relentless Assault, just another skill waiting to be fixed.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 8:30 am

No it's not. There were 2 problems with relentless assault which were it was on a keymaster which you could get for free and the existence of the blue bot.

Neither of these problems exist for burnfrost's skill.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 8:36 am

Burnfrost has 16k+ WIS with 300% Modifier, buffed by POPE XiaoTigrey v2 this does a shitload of damage. And right now, I don't trust Dajota in any way, they're just thieves.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 8:58 am

...and an Incinerate buffed with a Primarch does even more damage, so theoretically has an even bigger target on it.....

I don't see any reason for them nerfing any other established mercs. Incin and Burnfrost have been around for ages and they know what they can do and chose not to change them. It doesn't make sense to have a second round of nerfs.

If niobe turns out to be ridiculously overpowered in raid it might be a candidate for a future "balance" but we will have to wait and see.



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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 9:25 am

I was not impressed with mordeo when I ran one fir pvp before nerf, and I don't avoid them now unless there is a tigrey or Hellcat next to them.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 11:32 am

^ What squad are you running in PvP ?
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 12:23 pm

Howitzer golem titanfist primarch titanfist in the W

To Dan's comment, Big Rig is one of the oldest mercs in the game and they still nerfed both of his skills.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 12:25 pm

Yeah, Big Rig is one the "copycats" from blood brothers that was in the original slate. He is just Galahad Drake Knight
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 12:37 pm

Did they nerf Galahad Drake Knight on BB too then ?
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 12:53 pm

Don't know, don't pay it any more haven't in a long long time
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 1:12 pm

Would be a bitch move if they only nerfed it here, lol.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 2:10 pm

Different devs, different nerfs. BB is a totally different game with no connection to FF other than the base code used.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 2:14 pm

danthepirate wrote:
...and an Incinerate buffed with a Primarch does even more damage, so theoretically has an even bigger target on it.....

I don't see any reason for them nerfing any other established mercs. Incin and Burnfrost have been around for ages and they know what they can do and chose not to change them. It doesn't make sense to have a second round of nerfs.

If niobe turns out to be ridiculously overpowered in raid it might be a candidate for a future "balance" but we will have to wait and see.
Unfortunately, think it makes sense to continue to nerf. Duhkota wants newly released mercs to have high value so people fork out cash to get them. But the mercs with the highest value in the ATK and WIS family are old mercs. Right now Incinerate and Burnfrost dwarf all other ATK/WIS mercs in terms of damage and there's no way they can release mercs with over 1200% and 900% damage multipliers. If they prove to still help players place high in raid, I'd watch out. This was exactly the line of thought for AGI mercs.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 2:34 pm

The problem with agility was the fact that there was a SUPER attainable buffer who could buff ALL mercs for 70% of his wis, which made it so chain buffs could be used to skyrocket a whole squads agility stat for a raid to deal millions and millions of damage while not sacrificing attack spots for a buffer. And everyone could do it! You could put together a squad capable of 20mil hits with under 75 res (before blue bot inflation started).

With incin for instance, you have to put a primarch next to each one to get half the damage buff that a blue-tigrey-blue could provide to an entire team. Add to the fact that because agility mercs traditionally relied on procs to get kills because of typically low str stat, there were a larger number of options with those high multipliers (like keymaster and big rig). Very few people outside a couple of the elites are going to have more than 1 or 2 incins. everyone else is stuck with ultra mutant next to primarch which is a 4-5 mil damage squad on a good day.

Combining the large team buffs that ONLY agility had with the large damage multipliers made agility teams too strong in raid. Incin is the next best option, but you are going to max out at around 8 mil damage even with the most potent atk based teams. Same with BF, because you are going to deal much less damage average since your non-procs will be pathetic.

I don't think Dakota will have to nerf attack for any reason other than by completely neutering agility mercs they have imbalanced their own game that was VERY finely tuned in order to fix a problem caused by the release of a savage with a 70% buff all.

The more I have though about this, the more I wish that rather than do this BS change to every skill in the game Dakota had simply REMOVED blue and black bot entirely from the game, and given everyone who owned one a small stack of resources as a compensation. It would have fixed the problem, still pissed a lot of people off, but not nearly as bad as the MASS QUITS that happened after almost every agility merc in the game became worthless over night. And we wouldn't have to still run blue bot in every pvp setup despite it being super weak.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 3:33 pm

Just nerfing CXB-2000U would have solved the main problem already, but no, they also had to touch Big Rig & Mista-Fista and all the other mercs that once were valuable. Funny how they didn't touch Hellcat & Siren Maiden yet.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 3:52 pm

No because eve at 25% buff cxb next to tigrey would still buff everyone dealing 300% damage a huge amount and be the best raid set up.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 3:59 pm

Mamon, while I agree with the buff points, my simple question would be - why nerf black bot and relentless assault too then? (Fresh beat me to it as I was posting)  

The issue goes beyond just buffs, raid or exclusivity, in that black bot, incinerate, and burnfrost set standards. The same can be probably said for Siren Maiden and Cannonback. These mercs set the bar so high that Duhkota can't release anything better and they can't release any mechanics that would create OP synergy. Bull Drone would be more exciting and have more value if incinerate didn't exist. In turn, Duhkota would be the beneficiary of an excited player base and more cash expenditures.

Also, you are way off on the damage an incinerate can do in raid:

Brdy - GP - Inc - GP - Inc
Inc - GP - Inc - GP - Inc

Bottom line
2 Side Inc: 12.6k + (70%)13.6k ATK
Mid Inc: 12.6k + 2(70%) 13.6k ATK
Avg Inc: [2(22k) + 31k]/3 = 37k ATK
Avg damage value, ALL-OUT = 5* 37k * 1200% = 2.2M+  
Avg Inc procs per Raid Boss = 30% *5 rounds = 1.5x
Total AO damage output of bottom line = 3* 2.2M *1.5 = 10M  

Total AO damage output of entire squad (with Brodey instead of Inc on top line) = something close to double that or 20M.  

This isn't a max figure; this is an average figure of 20M which is a lot more than 8M max. I didn't even include things like infamy bonus or normal attacks. This team would hit the damage leader cap often if assembled. Of course, no one has 5 incinerates but the point should be clear.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 4:49 pm

Well .. There are people who had 5 CXB-2000A's, it's not impossible to have 5 Incinerates because CXB-2000A used to be 100 AC+ while Incinerate is something in the same area.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 5:23 pm

I don't think it matters what any squad hits for... It matters more whether or not savages hit for more and whether people are buying them to be competitive. If the top players buy the savages and win against people who have teams of non savages then there will be no need for another nerf or any other change.  It's all about the bottom line, not game dynamics. Just sayin.

My guess is that the recent nerf achieved this goal
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 5:38 pm

There is theoretical math damage, and then there are the people who have that exact set up, and report that the team hits for around 8 million. I could necro the thread where this was already discussed, pre-nerf, in an agility vs atk setup thread where people were comparing practical damage of 2000A's vs practical damage of an incinerate squad.

The end result of that very long discussion was that the average damage people were seeing last raid from 2000A and Blue/Tigrey/Blue setups was around 12-14 mil AO while the damage people were getting out of Incin/GP/Golem squads was more consistent as in they had less 4 mil random crap battles, but also none of the random 30 mil super battles that the agility teams could get.

The average damage of these incinerate teams was consistently between 8 and 12 Mil, regardless of potential mathematical damage output.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 5:56 pm

Hopefully they lower the HP of bosses to compensate for the lower dmg outputs that are going to happen. That, or give mag for finishing blow, otherwise no bosses will die and raid will be very boring.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 5:56 pm

Thing is: you'll always do more damage with savages because of proc manipulation. If you want to go top5 and you want to spend money on something, do it during the event.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 6:14 pm

I would love to see the thread where people have the exact setup, mamon. I ran an AGI squad myself that did less than expected values and I have posted many times on proc manip, but that ATK squad should be on par or higher than the highest possible AGI squad. I'm more likely to doubt the integrity of reports on the forum, as people tend to complain with hyperbole. Even your numbers have changed from saying max 8M to now average 8-12M. The point being, if incinerate/burn can produce numbers as high as AGI teams, there is reason from a dev standpoint to nerf.

What Orion said about bottom line was right but I think it still goes beyond Raid. Just a blue bot nerf would have been enough to put savages far ahead. They nerfed AGI stuff across the board and then released Lilith, Archangel, and F-9. Coincidence? Who knows.

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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 7:00 pm

The point I was trying to make was that in the nerf, they modified all kinds of mercs - old and new. So, my reasoning was that if there was to be a second round of nerfs it wouldn't be old mercs, because they nerfed old mercs in the recent nerfs which means that they are happy with any old mercs that remained unmodified.

I ran an AGI squad of 4 Keys, 2 Big rigs, 2 Blue Bots. Tigrey and Brody. My average damage was 8-10m with low being 4m and semi frequent highs of 20m+. That squad (before the blue bot price inflation) cost well under 100 res to make (after the price inflation was probably worth 150 res). That squad would get you rank 50 and you could still farm over 100 mags.

Let's look at the standard attack squad of say 5 incins and 4 primarchs. That would cost you up to 500 res to make. I don't know what the dmg would be but lets assume it's similar.

The difference is that it was far too cheap to make a simple AGI squad and huge numbers of people had them.

I don't think they mind that a few people have squads that rival savage squads. I think they didn't like a few people having squads way better than the savage squads (tele squads) and lots of people having squads as good as the savage squads.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 8:04 pm

If I gave a shit about raids I could easily get 5-6 incincs. They aren't that expensive. Their honestly not much more then pre nerf black bot.
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 8:15 pm

Really I've been looking for an inc for about 2 weeks now
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PostSubject: Re: value of mordeo?   October 23rd 2013, 8:52 pm

just gotta be prepared to drop 150 res on one. That's all.

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