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 PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal

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legendslayer
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PostSubject: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 1:14 pm

PvP Event is live.

Epic Reward: (Top 500) http://fatalfrontier.wikia.com/wiki/Bionic_Smasher_v2

Lethal Reward: (Top 25) http://fatalfrontier.wikia.com/wiki/Kinetic_Prophet_v2

Pack Lethal: http://fatalfrontier.wikia.com/wiki/Bionic_Bull_Thor_v2
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 1:43 pm

This lethals debuff is terrible.... I like the pact L though.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 1:48 pm

What 12 year old drew these mercs? I never complain about the art but it just looks like shit.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 2:04 pm

let's start off the braggin rights Razz



Last edited by Ravendill on October 25th 2013, 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 2:21 pm

Lets hope the pack lethal possibly inspired them to fix the Niobe bug.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 2:41 pm

Proc manipulation worst I've ever seen
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 2:44 pm

Ya, I've lost multiple times to teams that I have no business losing too. This event isn't very fun so far. I feel they tweaked the rates to force more ammo burning.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 2:48 pm

I've lost 6 times now. I lost maybe 6 times whole last event...And only option for anything worth more then 3k points is teams like thalstin ..... its litteraly two crap point options then 5 lethals worth like 12k... ugh I had 500 ammo and 200 mags ready for this event but now that I'm seeing what I'm seeing and the lethal debuff is soooo bad. Guess I'll be playing on natural regen for this one.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 2:52 pm

If you have the team and resources, gut it out, Arth. This lethal is worth it, and will be a very versatile player. Think of this guy + Niobe buffs for raid! I was hoping to go for Ls this event, but I just don't have the team to do it Sad
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 3:04 pm

Just for that Raven I think I'll fight you every chance I get, I've already beaten you twice today :p
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 3:12 pm

But the second skill is really bad so its pretty much a lighter hitting incin with one less hit. Slow as incin also. I'm betting I'll be able to just buy one from exchange for 180-200 for V2
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 3:38 pm

Orzhov wrote:
Just for that Raven I think I'll fight you every chance I get, I've already beaten you twice today :p
teehee Laughing 
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 4:05 pm

Epic is worst we've seen in a while. Easily worse than Bionic Televangelist, which already goes for cheap. The Lethal is good but deceiving as in PvP, the HP and AGI will be an issue, and in raid, it's not really that much stronger than Bull Drone.  The second skill is pretty much useless (if I recall, someone posted before raid boss has 0 def too).  

Bull Drone multiplier: 3 * 200% * 35% = 2.1x + some bleed
Kinetic Prophet multiplier: 5 * 150% * 30% = 2.25x + really bad debuff
Incinerate multiplier (for reference): 6 * 200% * 30% = 3.6x + some burn

Yes, K.Prophet has better base stats, but that is a smaller factor past one or two buffs. It is still going to be the second best ATK merc for raid, but dropping some Res on a Bull Drone might be a cheaper option.

Also, I agree that proc manip is at its highest for this event Evil or Very Mad 
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 4:28 pm

Ravendill wrote:
let's start off the braggin rights Razz

WTF? Thats not my PvP squad, thats my raid squad Razz.
And my proc luck is horrible too. Cant even manage 15 streaks.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 4:31 pm

I third that...proc manipulation is terribad already and it's the first day! usually they wait a day or two before they kick it into gear to get people locked in first. This is just nutso!
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 4:46 pm

Can't have uber epic every event, last 2 event epics were extremely good, and the lethal is not uber but he's one of the best raid merc out there.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 5:16 pm

The epic reward is extremely uninspiring, both in ability and art. I quite like the Lethal though. I might have made a run at it if I wasn't worried about ending up with 6 crappy r1s I'll trade for 1-2 res on the market place.

I really really like the pact lethal. Canis is still one of my favorite mercs and this is Canis on steroids. His defense isn't quite as good as Canis but the extra ability will make him a lot more useful. Plus he is a minotaur and I love minotaurs!
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 5:21 pm

^ yeah, but no one will win them because they're like .000000001% drop rate Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 5:24 pm

^Very sad yet true. Hopefully he gets added to omega cells one day and I get lucky.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 5:35 pm

I am sad to see such terrible proc manipulation. After the bullcrap nerf, terrible customer support (niobe buff vs canis), and completely arbitrary bans (anyone with a load of resources bye bye), whether or not I continued playing pretty much was wholly dependant on whether or not all that was enough for Dakota, and they felt like they could scale back a bit on the proc manipulation.

I have no issue saying that I am good at pvp. I have a strong team of top quality that should go 98 wins out of a hundred without losing. But I have not been able to complete streak 30 against teams with Inamorata and Ulfr all day.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 5:44 pm

I haven't had a single 30 streak without a loss yet. Granted I always go for most points but still.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 5:49 pm

I just completed my first 30 streak of the day.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 5:50 pm

they have a very fitting name for the new pact they are selling....
the name tells you exactly what it is.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 6:25 pm

I'm not defending shenanigans (as I believe they are happening and evident at low numbered streaks), but in the far past (maybe 3 cycles of events ago and before), I think they had the procs turned up, which made players feel like they should win at high rates.

Let's say you have a decent team and select opponents well so that you have a 75% win rate - to go through 3 matches without a loss should happen only 42.8% of the time. To go through 9 matches without a loss should only happen 7.5% of the time.

Let's say you have a dominant team and select opponents well so your squad has a 90% win rate times - 30-streaks without losing should still be extremely rare (<5%).

Because proc rates are so low (70%, 30%) and damage is so high in this game, my belief is that at fair rates, it's actually very difficult to assert dominance over other teams, which further reinforces the above example figures.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 6:41 pm

Your math doesn't make any sense at all. Odds and probability are much more complex then that. A 70% proc rate should have a 70 % chance to proc every time
Now the odds of a 70% proc rate happening an X number of times would go down the more it goes on. But we see 70% proc rate buffers go 1/3 2/3 but almost never 3/3. It should happen 7 out of 10 times but it simply doesn't.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 6:48 pm

@ caya, multiple people had this problem. Most likely your Raid squad is in slot 1, just swap your PvP squad to Slot 1 and select it as default squad should do the trick.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 6:50 pm

Ok you've been thinking to much mrpug Smile but fact is this pvp sucks. Procs are horrible and all so they could make more so ya have to buy more cans
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 6:54 pm

In future, Dakota will make sure you can only win Lethals by paying, that's their only goal as well.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 6:58 pm

You have 16% chances to have 0 proc out of 5, if you have 5 mercs with a 30% proc rate, and since your opponent has 48% of having two proc or more... it means you're going to lose an average of 1 match out of 12, even with a full lethal team vs a decent epic team. And the odds are much worse if you're assume there's a buffer w/o proc per team.


Last edited by Amerame on October 25th 2013, 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 7:00 pm

Arthainius wrote:
Your math doesn't make any sense at all. Odds and probability are much more complex then that. A 70% proc rate should have a 70 % chance to proc every time.
I looked over the math and believe it's sound.

Arthainius wrote:
Now the odds of a 70% proc rate happening an X number of times would go down the more it goes on. But we see 70% proc rate buffers go 1/3 2/3 but almost never 3/3. It should happen 7 out of 10 times but it simply doesn't
At 70% proc rates, going 3/3 should happen only (0.7)^3 = 34.3%.
Going 1/3 or 2/3 are actually more regular, combining for 63% of the time.
------

I'm actually not even discussing proc rates in my original post (which I do think are bogus atm). I'm saying regardless of proc rates, if you have a dominant squad you think should win 9 out of 10 times on average, your chance of going on a 30-streak without losing is less than 5%.  In other words, there's little reason to think a squad should be able to get a 30 streak without losing.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 7:05 pm

If anyone sees my team, can you post what you see me running?
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 7:31 pm

Fresh-Fil-A wrote:
@ caya, multiple people had this problem. Most likely your Raid squad is in slot 1, just swap your PvP squad to Slot 1 and select it as default squad should do the trick.
Raven fought my pvp squad and it's in squad 3, I also have squad 3 selected as my default pvp squad (little box on the right)
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 7:45 pm

Legend I ran into it earlier it was 3 niobes a kenna and something else
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 7:58 pm

^^ Blue bot

And to add a point to the "Math" discussion (and I use parenthesis because that's a very liberal term for it), I am not saying I should win every fight. No one should win every fight, but there is no way that there should benchmarks for where procs are good and where they are bad. Fights 1-15 are easy opponents and I get 4/4 buff procs almost every fight. Fights 15-30 are against harder opponents and if I get two buffs I am lucky.

The fact is that I feel like once upon a time there was a point to running a lethal squad. When I moved from epics to lethals in pvp I noticed a HUGE improvement in my win rate (this was back in around April, May, when I finally got enough lethals to run a 3/4 lethal and blue bot team). There was a point to having lethals because they were BETTER than epics. Now, it doesn't freakin matter. You can run a team of 5 fug bug jowels, and sometimes you will get your nuke procs and win, and sometimes you won't. You could be running 5 golems or 5 fistas in their place, and win roughly the same amount, because it doesn't freaking matter what you run any more. You win if you proc, you lose if you don't, that is how this game is balanced, and with Dakota controlling the proc rates, it ceases to be a game, and becomes everything I have hoped this game wouldn't become, a slot machine with fixed odds stacked against you.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 8:24 pm

Yep, that is congruent with some of the things I said mamon.

The main point of my "math" post is not about procs. I allude to them but have repeatedly said procs are clearly bogus and fixed. Art stated:
Arthainius wrote:
I haven't had a single 30 streak without a loss yet.
The math was to demystify the idea that even an extremely dominant team should go on long streaks with fair rates. Good teams should have a hard time to even go on 3-9 streaks. It's of course even less likely with fixed procs.

Also, there was some time many months ago when proc rates were probably artificially higher than advertised. No one complained, because of course, rates were in their favor. This is a common game developer tactic in competitive games. In a fair match of fair skill, your odds of winning should only be 50%. But no one likes to lose 1 out of 2 matches, so they artificially changed rates. Now that the rates are in the other direction, the contrast is too dramatic for players to handle.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 8:35 pm

One more point (repeating something which I mentioned briefly above) - in a game where procs are 30%, 70%, but the damage multipliers are 200%x3, 150%x4, they cannot make a fun game for a majority of the playerbase unless the procs are fixed (the other way) or have a large overhaul to mechanics/balance.  Tbh, it's hypocritical and the majority of players in this generation want wins. Again, fair rates would lead to a lot of losing and short streaks.

Unfortunately, this is the underlying engine for mobage games and "mainstream" games in general.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 25th 2013, 9:15 pm

I don't care what proc manipulation they use. It's a level playing field - it affects everyone.

What I don't like is that the testing you do in daily pvp doesn't translate to the PVP event because as soon as the event starts, things start working differently. This isn't a new thing, it's just seems to be far more pronounced now (for me).

I have had to change my team around since the event has started which is slightly annoying.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 11:02 am

danthepirate wrote:
I don't care what proc manipulation they use. It's a level playing field - it affects everyone.

What I don't like is that the testing you do in daily pvp doesn't translate to the PVP event because as soon as the event starts, things start working differently. This isn't a new thing, it's just seems to be far more pronounced now (for me).

I have had to change my team around since the event has started which is slightly annoying.
The problem is your not actually fighting someone else your still fighting the programming its just that the squad your fighting was configured by someone else. If it was actual people on both ends of the match then the proc manipulation would be fair. Right now its everyone getting screwed because were just playing the machine.



I lost to this team 9 times before ANY of my buffers decided to actually buff. 9 times....... On the 10th time double gun proc buff and it was instant win they didn't touch me one time..... that is obvious proc manipulation at its finest. I can see this team beating me once in awile but 9 times ? WTF

And nothing against FozzieV as its a good 30 winstreak team but looking at just the stats, procs, and modifiers I should have eaten him for lunch over and over. My top 3 damage mercs all strike first and with the atk buff its almost always round 1 win with just auto attack. Now that they are messing with the buffs proc soo much its almost like you have to have all nukes cause you may only get one proc the whole match.

Oh I should also mention all 9 times every single person that could proc did. Literally he won every match in two rounds or less because all his mercs were running like a 100% proc rate. His flaming howlitzer buffed 4-5 times per match. Almost every single kill it buffed his team. Even when a proc would kill 3 enemies it would do 3 buffs for each kill. Howlitzer is either broken or top 3 merc in game now.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 12:35 pm

Thats not even fozzies pvp squad, or the one I see anyway.

I can confirm that howitzer is godly in the 10 man battle. It didn't seem like his buffs stacked, but when I start see incinerates that come out of the back row and bounce off.
I have also seen an 84k auto attack front row to back. Shocked 
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 2:44 pm

Has anyone ran across my squad. Wonder if the right one is coming up.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 4:06 pm

Ya Lol that's not even my squad....I run helio-mord-howliter-blue bot-nox
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 4:09 pm

Your leader procing over and over with one shots is making me consider a switch
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 9:48 pm

dohnson69 wrote:
Has anyone ran across my squad. Wonder if the right one is coming up.
F-9 -Serpent Shade- Mordeo -Kenna -Niobe
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 10:12 pm

Thanks mrpug
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 10:54 pm

What the heck is the secret to getting a ton of points in pvp?
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 11:14 pm

A massive stash of mags Smile
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 26th 2013, 11:27 pm

Orzhov wrote:
What the heck is the secret to getting a ton of points in pvp?
When you get a point boost, ride it Smile.

The game is so weird; first day the proc manip was bad and lots of point boosts. Now it seems to have returned to "normal" levels of boosts and fixed matches.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 27th 2013, 12:15 am

Well I mean, would the best thing to do is get around an 18 or 21 win streak and just keep fighting in that area and not proceed?
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 27th 2013, 12:26 am

Proceed when you get point boost. But hang there when you don't.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Event - Kinetic Prophet Lethal   October 27th 2013, 12:29 am

It depends whether you are short on mags or short on time. There was a thread where I did up the maths for it all.
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