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Warcrier
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PostSubject: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 28th 2014, 9:55 am

Im running a proc squad, 4 buffers/debuffers and a Diana, as you can see its a ATK squad. works amazing
But as i can see in these posts, AGI is good, if not great!
And then we have WIZ, slow but huge damage.
Does this mean that:

ATK = mid damage mid speed
AGI = low damage high speed
WIZ = high damage low speed

GO !

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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 28th 2014, 3:14 pm

Nope ...

AGI doesn't have a good all-squad buffer since the great nuking so most of the "serious" gamers have moved away from them, with the exception of F9 & Archangel which are fast & strong.

WIS has a new all-squad buffer, but it isn't tradeable so the "serious" gamers continue to use other tools to complement their Burnfrost, Siren, Ulfr, and the new Lurker should slot in very well.

ATK has the Primarch which is effective for adjacent mercs, and with many of the Lethal mercs heavily oriented toward the ATK genre, many of the more serious have built their squads around this group. Cyclops looks to be a solid addition.

Enjoy!
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mamoncrief
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 28th 2014, 5:04 pm

There are exceptions to every rule. Back in the early days Atk used to be random/cone attacks, agil was almost 100% random hits, and wis was mostly nuke/hit all. They have mixed it up a lot more and now those distinctions aren't quite as prevalent as they used to be.

At this stage in the game I run a fast atk team, so all high atk and high agil mercs, usually with atk or agil procs.
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 28th 2014, 7:19 pm

But are you in need of a buffer, as a must?

Then i got it mamomcrief, thats more or less what i found out of my self! ;D
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 28th 2014, 8:24 pm

The less buff dependant the better, but it is better to be proc dependant than buff dependant. I guess this might help some people out to illustrate what I am talking about. This is the evolution of pvp team over the course of my year + playing this game to show what I am talking about in the sense that Unbuffed > Buffed > Atk Proc as far as mercs go. Also, this is specifically pvp. for Raid and tower you just run a specialized team for those events that usually has nothing to do with overall squad strength. 5 D&J is best for tower, and spamming incins works for raid, while those teams in PVP would be rather mediocre.

I started out running -

Siren-black bot-Siren-Black bot-blue bot - This set up was totally proc dependant but I always went first thanks to the then OP blue bot, and a single proc from any of the other 4 was a win.

Then I went to-

Helio-Golem-Odin-Mordeo-Canis - This was more buff dependant, and also relied on higher chance defense skills and worked great as a kind of the proto-tank team.

Then I went to-

Helio-Dbl Gun-Hellcat-Jackson-Incin - This team was super strong, and hellcat is worth her wait in gold, but I found that I was still relying on a chain buff so I re imagined.

Now I am running-

Howizer-Jackson-Dbl Gun-Helio-Pulse - This team is incredibly fast, relies on no chain buffs, and has incredible snow ball potential thanks to howitzer. Using jackson between the two slower mercs makes helio my *slowest* merc with 14k+ agil. This team is going to be hard to beat.
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 28th 2014, 8:58 pm

M: so for those that can't afford 1000 res for a primo Lethal-based squad, it looks like there will be a vast chasm between having 1 L (either earned or purchased from the X) and not.

Then, what kinds of squads are successful for the various events? It looks like both of the recent awards (Lurker & Cyclops) would be something solid to build either WIS or ATK squads around. So would 3 Cyclops & 2 Primarchs be reasonably good & fast; or 3 Lurkers with the all-squad WIS buffer & Blue Wasp (AGI & DEF buff) be a reasonable crew for a cheaper squad?

Or does the F9 & Archangel still rock the house as some of the fastest Epics in the game?

And, what are you doing with the mercs that have fallen out of favor? Up for trading some mercs?
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 28th 2014, 9:41 pm

Absolutely, I was attempting to illustrate that you do the best with what you have. I didn't just one day wake up and have a squad with Jackson and hellcat. I won 5 sirens in her event, scraped, scrounged, sold literally everything I had at the time to pick up the r1's to finish the first and build a second. Then I combined that with the bot savages that I build (fortuitously) as a POPE during the CXB raid. With that team I won my first lethal, using JUST mags, so it was completely free. I traded that lethal for golem, farmed more mags, won another, then another, then another and so on and so forth. Over a year of work is what it took for me to move from that proc dependant siren team to the one I have now.

Essentially, I wanted to encourage players who are building squads now not to get pissed that they don't have the best of the best and give up. None of the people with the best of the best got there over night, and none of us had it handed to us.

I think that right now with the recent event rares people have an awesome oportunity to put together squads with total lethal potential. building a teams like you mentioned.

Wasp-F9-Cyclops-Primarch-Cyclops

Or V Formation lurker - Pimarch - pulseweaver (wis buff)- wasp/blue bot - lurker <-- (PS I Really like this one! Awesome Synergy)

Both could easily win a PVP Lethal if someone had the mags and commitment to go for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 28th 2014, 9:51 pm

@mamoncrief: I am surprised you aren't attack buffing pulse so that when it buffs you will definitely wipe the opposition

@heptathlete: I don't agree with your assertion that having 1 L is instantly going to make a huge difference as to how well you do in PVP (assuming we are talking PVP). If you are trying to build a 5 man squad, you are pretty much going to be bashing your head against a wall until your squad is good enough to consistently beat the weakest squad served up. The other thing you are also incorrect about is the cost of a top level PVP squad. I estimate the value of mamoncrief's latest squad at being worth a ballpark figure of 4k AC. As you know, last event I finally got there (to making a competitive 5 man squad), with a front row squad worth maybe 1.4k res. The other thing you need to take into consideration is the 10 man battle. One of the guys from the ally cats relegates his rubbish mercs like doubleguns to his back row, so it's not just a case of fronting up with a good 5 man combo, you have to have a decent backup to win the 3rd battle as well. I would assume mamoncrief had to do some hard trading to get that squad....

Basically what I am trying to say is, if you don't have a competitive 5 man squad, don't try. Manipulate the matchups with a however many man squad works best for you.
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 28th 2014, 11:43 pm

Yeah, I was given a fresh account and 100 res I could build up to a lethal in 2 months or so. In 4 months have 3-4. It's all about winning events though. You can get up there by playing the market, but really, you gotta be willing to sink the time into winning a pvp or tower, or the cash for savages into winning raid.
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 29th 2014, 12:33 am

I think we have gone off topic...

I think the best option is, if people want some assistance with designing PVP squads, they need to list what mercs they have and the amount of res they have to spend. Also an idea of how far through a streak they can get on their current squad and what type of squads are proving to be an issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 29th 2014, 4:38 am

Im going like this for 5man pvp
Mixed
Blue bot - primarch - diana - wasteland rider - yellow bot
This setup shows me something funny, in theori, this setup is unbeatable unless you have skills like D&J and better. i have 4 procs prebattle that lowers def twice and lowers agi and atk. THEN buffs agi and def to all my own pluss attack on blue bot and Diana.
I dont remember the numbers but the stats on all the mercs is strong in my line, and weak in their line. ive beaten Leathal groups many times.
_____BUT____ there is always a but, i can see on the procs when im supposed to loose and not, cuz we all know that sometimes, it doesnt mather what setup you have, eventully you will loose the streak.
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 29th 2014, 7:03 am

I think that is an interesting squad.

I would like to see that in action.

I assume you avoid properly buffed canis' and probably wisdom squads as well. Also squads with agi buffers and things like Archangel and F9 might give you issues. I think there might be something funny going on with the yellow bot defuff as well. I have heard it is surprisingly effective - more than what should be expected given the modifier and debuff resistance.

What streak do you usually get to on single mag?

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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 29th 2014, 7:23 am

Ive slowly built up my squad, I still am quite dubious about attempting any L shot as my biggest concern is time!

I have 2x pope cyclops, 1x pope lurker. 200c cannon, 200c canis, 3x 14k+ prims, pope f9, 200c buzzard, 200c rail gun, 200c sunbeam, 2x 200c prawns, 2x 200c shell stingers.

600+ mags, 170 ac.

What to do.. mmm Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 29th 2014, 10:00 am

Danthepirate: I usually get to the streak where im supposed to loose due to the game, havent happend alot, but this happend: I took first a group with 1 lethal, then 5 good/pope epics(D&J +++) then 4 lethals, next attack i lost, then i started a new streak and lost to a group with 2 rares.
i find it akward, but ok, the game wont let me win.
The debuffs is good since all the autoattacks increase in damage and my blue bot (with the yellow) gets primarch buffed so he hits for 15-20k damage on a auto hit when he stands in the backline.

d1fferent: I think id run like this: go W formation, buff your cyclops with a primarch, then canis and f9 Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 29th 2014, 3:06 pm

Diff: you've got an arsenal!

Front with your Cyclops & Primarchs, stashing your cannonback, F9, canis & buzzard in the back. Pull the back to the front to mix the formation (e.g. double buffed cannonback or canis, buzzard to silence, or F9 for ally retribution).

Warcrier: revisit mamon's point about being buff / proc dependent. As the old saying goes, "live by the sword, die by the sword". When you can win battles regardless is when you have the primo squad.
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 29th 2014, 6:51 pm

mamoncrief wrote:
and none of us had it handed to us.

I did.

Make friends with top tier players kids, you may just inherit their mercs when they retire.
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 30th 2014, 12:24 pm

You are the exception daed haha
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PostSubject: Re: Lets learn something from eachother!    January 30th 2014, 12:31 pm

I favor atk squads for reasons mamon listed above (agi/wis too proc dependent) also, I would always consider multi hitters (incin, restrained titan, etc) or whole squad nukes (golem, cannonback, siren, diana) to debuffers. One can always throw in a blue wasp or cxb to buff agi on atk squads since generally they are slower than the agi based dmg mercs (f9, archangel)...but just my opinion....

And yes, I do believe the gold cxb escaped the "whole cxb family" nerf that crippled the black n blue cxbs...
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