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pglandis
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PostSubject: Skilled Martial Discussion   May 25th 2014, 6:30 am

Any thoughts or data on the Skilled Martial merc or the Martialing Cry skill? What are the predicted stats? Will the proc max at 70%? Is it better or worse than existing Agi/Wis buffing mercs? Are there any older Agi AND Wis buffers out there?
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   May 25th 2014, 12:08 pm

You should definitely build one or two.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 9:01 am

pglandis wrote:
Any thoughts or data on the Skilled Martial merc or the Martialing Cry skill?  What are the predicted stats?  Will the proc max at 70%?  Is it better or worse than existing Agi/Wis buffing mercs?  Are there any older Agi AND Wis buffers out there?

Anybody got the stats for this merc's fully evolved state?
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 3:59 pm

pe is 16731 15883 15762 13348 12136
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pglandis
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 5:12 pm

Thanks, Amerame! I am assuming she procs at 70%. Right now mine is 56% at skill level 16/20. Anyone have an idea what the buff % is? Is it 200%?
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 6:01 pm

I believe it is a 40% mod buff.
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pglandis
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 7:25 pm

I thought it was more than +40%. How does that compare with other WIS or AGI buffing mercs like Tigrey, Pulseweaver Cyborg, Blue Wasp, and Blue CXB, etc.? I think they are all better, plus some of them buff the whole squad and add DEF on top of that. It seems the pluses are 70% proc and higher stats overall.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 7:40 pm

Well 40% is pretty good as it is buffing 2 stats and based on a decent amount of wis. It all depends on how you want to use it. Eg. you buff a stallion with it and you end up buffing it's attack and buff skills.

Wasp is 40% but based on low wis, Blue wasp is 25% but based on slightly higher wis. Cyborg is 40% but buffs everything and tigrey is 100% but only does wis based on a pretty mediocre amount of wis.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 9:30 pm

Thanks for your input, Dan. I always assumed a buff was an increase of the targets' stats. For example, in the case of:

D&J (WIS 12000) - Tigrey (WIS 8000) - Ulfr (WIS 15000)

the +100% yields:

D&J (WIS 12000+12000) - Tigrey (WIS 8000+8000) - Ulfr (WIS 15000+15000).

But from what you are saying here, it sounds like instead it is an increase of a % of the source's stat. That would make it:

D&J (WIS 12000+8000) - Tigrey (WIS 8000+8000) - Ulfr (WIS 15000+8000).

So which is the correct calculation? And what happens if on either side of this trio you have another WIS buffer. Does it increase it again?
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 10:31 pm

So buff and debuffs work by adding onto/subtracting from (though for a debuff it is believed that there is a "debuff resistance") a target's stats a certain percentage of the source's wisdom.

This:
D&J (WIS 12000+8000) - Tigrey (WIS 8000+8000) - Ulfr (WIS 15000+8000)
is correct.

The last thing you are talking about there is chain buffing. Whether you are buffing a mordeo with a tigrey, buffing a pulseweaver cycborg with a tigrey or buffing a Helio with a tigrey, all that matters is the wis of the source when it buffs. This is why people care about buff orders.

For instance, some of the formations are bugged, in that the prebattle proc order is different in battle 3 for pvp compared to the fist 2 battles. This makes a team far less effective as the buffs have gone off in the wrong order and the buffs are not chaining correctly.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 10:43 pm

OK, so say I have two 8000 WIS Tigreys on either side of a 15000 WIS Ulfr and they both proc, then would the Ulfr come out with 15000+8000+8000 wisdom?

Is chain buffing different from this example? Isn't that more like two 8000 WIS Tigreys side by side and having the first one proc to add 8000 to self & adjacents and then the second one proc to add 16000 more to self and adjacents? Does it really work that way or is it just buff from base WIS stat of source?

You are really helping me understand the mechanics behind these buffing skills, so thank you for your explanation.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 10:49 pm

Oh, the other big question then on chain buffing is, "In what order do mercs normally "roll" for proc?" Is it by position in the squad or by decreasing AGI stats or something else? It seemed to follow some squad order a while back, but then things seemed to keep changing around, so I got mixed up.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 11:19 pm

The buff order is always determined by position in the squad. The order is always back to front but whether it is left to right or right to left is determined by the formation (mostly is is left to right) . eg. The front formation buffs left to right normally but in the 3rd pvp battles I believe it buffs right to left. Also in raid this formation has a crazy buff order that makes no sense.

Chain buffing is when a merc that performs a buff/debuff has it's wis buffed by another merc. So, if you have tig-tig-ulfr and you get lucky with both tigs proccing (in the correct order), you end up with the ulfr having 8k +8k+15k wis.

If you had tig-ulfr-tig, you would get the same wis onto the ulfr if both buffed, but you would just call it double buffing.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 10th 2014, 11:38 pm

Chain buffing was big before the great nerfing - back when the Blue CXB (Bot) ruled the game.

Many used a combination of Blues & Tigreys / Primarchs to amp up their heavy hitters. Look back in the history to the time of March - July 2013 and you can see lots of discussions on these matters.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 11th 2014, 5:35 am

I noticed that both adjacent mercs does not receive equivalent buff. In unbuffed combo Leoric - MArtial guy - Stallion, Leoric attacks first followed by Stallion and Martial Guy. When Martial's buff procs, its always Stallion who attacks first followed by Leoric.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 11th 2014, 6:15 am

Nice 3 man pvp squad you have there Smile

I have heard of that sort of thing happening with other combinations of mercs (I can't remember what is was though).

You would have to do testing with other combinations to see if it is martial or just the combination.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 11th 2014, 10:00 am

caya wrote:
I noticed that both adjacent mercs does not receive equivalent buff. In unbuffed combo Leoric - MArtial guy - Stallion, Leoric attacks first followed by Stallion and Martial Guy. When Martial's buff procs, its always Stallion who attacks first followed by Leoric.

Remember that the "adjustments" are a range (100% - 200%, 200% - 300%, etc), so the lift that the buff is giving to your hitters isn't going to be an exact number, whereas the AGI stat is discrete. You might get 104% for one merc and 190% for the other (assuming the 100-200 range).

Without the buff it's who has the better AGI stat, with the buff it's a crapshoot (daddy needs a new pair of shoes ...).
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 11th 2014, 10:05 am

heptathlete wrote:
caya wrote:
I noticed that both adjacent mercs does not receive equivalent buff. In unbuffed combo Leoric - MArtial guy - Stallion, Leoric attacks first followed by Stallion and Martial Guy. When Martial's buff procs, its always Stallion who attacks first followed by Leoric.

Remember that the "adjustments" are a range (100% - 200%, 200% - 300%, etc), so the lift that the buff is giving to your hitters isn't going to be an exact number, whereas the AGI stat is discrete.  You might get 104% for one merc and 190% for the other (assuming the 100-200 range).

Without the buff it's who has the better AGI stat, with the buff it's a crapshoot (daddy needs a new pair of shoes ...).
I would agree but i monitor regularly higher buff to one merc. If it was like you said, sometimes Stalion would go first, sometimes Leoric. Ill try to swap those two to see of its position related effect.
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 13th 2014, 9:08 am

I am starting to believe Martial is a 30% mod. (Still an amazing merc)

My Martial has 13348 wis (I am lazy and have not added crystals yet)
My v1 Helio has 11002 agi
My v2 Gigan has 15390 agi

Even when Martial buffs Helio, Gigan still goes before Helio. So unless this is some weird scenario like caya is having then this would suggest a 30% modifier, because anything higher would result in Helio going before Gigan.

Example:

30% = 4004.4 + Helio's 11002 agi = 15006.4 agi (which would still put Gigan going before)
35% = 4671.8 + Helio's 11002 agi = 15673.8 agi (Helio should go before Gigan)
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PostSubject: Re: Skilled Martial Discussion   June 13th 2014, 2:25 pm

When my Adept Martial v2 (13,998 WIS) buffs my Helio (14,728 AGI) and Leoric Flameclaw V2 (15,887 AGI), the Leoric goes off first followed by Helio…which obviously makes sense-so the point is that I can mix up some combos (if you want my help) to test out the Martial. Note my Martial should be 8n1 PE with 200cc stats.


Last edited by Zoar1984 on June 13th 2014, 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added more details.)
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